I Get It From My Mom: Authentic Conversations Between a Mother and Her Daughters on Parenting and Growing Up

Sweet Dreams: Sleep Habits and the Importance of Sleep from Cradle to College

• Elissa, Ava & Maggie Klein • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Sweet Dreams: Sleep Habits and the Importance of Sleep from Cradle to College

From sleepless newborn nights to college all-nighters, sleep—or the lack of it—is a shared thread through every parenting and growing-up journey. In this episode of I Get It From My Mom, Elissa and Ava (minus Maggie this time!) dive deep into sleep: how it changes as kids grow, why teens fight it, and how parents never really rest again.

You’ll hear:

  • Honest stories from the baby and toddler years (including night terrors and pacifier mishaps)
  • The science of adolescent sleep cycles and why teens are biologically wired to stay up late
  • What chronic sleep deprivation does to teens’ mental health and performance
  • The "eternal vigilance" of mom sleep (and why dads sleep through everything!)
  • Power naps, dream talk, and nighttime routines that actually help
  • Tips for improving your family’s sleep, from bedtime routines to sleep environments

Whether you're a parent of little ones, navigating the teen years, or just trying to survive your own sleepless phase, this one’s for you. Comment, follow, and share it with a sleep-deprived parent.

​Welcome to, I Get It from my mom, where we tackle the realities of family life with honesty and a whole lot of love. I'm Elissa, mother of two incredible daughters and professional sleep enthusiast who hasn't had a full night's rest since 2005. And I'm Ava 18 and soon to be a sophomore in college where sleep is basically a luxury item that none of us can afford. Coffee is now my personality. Maggie, our family's night owl is sadly not able to join us this episode, but we'll share her not so great sleep habits along the way. Today we're talking about something all humans do, but that parents in particular are, but that parents in particular are obsessed with sleep. Whether you're trying to get your baby to sleep, your teenager to wake up, or just trying to remember what eight consecutive hours of unconsciousness feels like this episode is for you. We'll go through how our sleep habits have changed over the years, the science of how much sleep kids actually need at different ages and why Mom somehow developed bionic hearing for the slightest baby whimper, but can sleep through dad's snoring. And we'll make a passionate case for bringing back nap time at all ages. So grab your favorite cozy blanket, maybe a cup of chamomile tea, and settle in. Just try not to fall asleep before we're done. Let's start at the beginning when you were babies. You both decided nighttime sleep was not a priority for you from the start. Oh God, am I about to hear how terrible I was as a baby again? Well, Ava, you definitely presented some challenges. You had reflux and were a terrible sleeper. You only slept well in our arms or on our chests. You absolutely hated that bassinet. Even when swaddled, you essentially refused to sleep unless you were physically attached to one of our bodies. Sometimes the only way you'd sleep was when it was also in a swing going super fast side to side. Cried a lot in the middle of the night. Was it really that bad? Uh, we were so sleep deprived that our pediatrician actually suggested letting you sleep on your stomach, which went against all official recommendations at the time. But it helped you were so much less fussy that way, and grandma also bought you this genius contraption that kept you from rolling over in the night when you were a few months old, so you wouldn't get stuck in a bad position. And that helped too. Was Maggie any better? She was less sensitive, so not screaming in pain all the time, but she still woke up frequently as a second child though we knew to put her down to fall asleep and let her figure it out a bit more for herself. But Mags was still up every two to three hours all night and we still lazily had her sleep in our bed after a while just to survive. For both of you. We had you swaddled all the time since you preferred it that way and you were both addicted to pacifiers. We had to place them throughout your cribs. You'd throw them or they'd fall out and we count them landing through the baby monitor to know exactly when the crying would start. We could hear the thunk and we knew what we had about 10 seconds before the next meltdown did I eventually sleep through the night though? We hit our wits end on New Year's Eve of 2007. We remember it well. We were at our friend's place for New Year's, and all of their babies slept through the night, but you were screaming and awake as the ball dropped at midnight. It still had us awake all night. You were seven months then. So we used the Ferber method after that. What's the Ferber method? Oh, you'll love this. It's where you let your babies cry for progressive longer periods before checking on them. The idea is they learned to self-soothe and get back to sleep after crying. It worked, but those first few nights were so tough on everyone. We literally sat outside of your room and watched you on the monitor and listened to you scream through the door for about two and a half hours that first night. But you did eventually sleep. So did you torture Maggie like that too? No, of course not. We frankly were worried if she screamed out, she'd wake you in the room next door. Plus, at least when she woke up, Maggie happily ate and then went right back to sleep. She wasn't crying or up for long periods like you. So while it was tiring, it wasn't. I don't know mind. Numbingly painful for us, but neither of you really fully slept through the night until you're about one years old. It was torture. What's the science on baby sleep? Like? Why do they literally sleep so much? Infant sleep is actually critical for brain development as you'd expect during those first few months. Baby's brains are forming a million neural connections per second. Sleep is when memories get consolidated and learning gets processed. But I feel like they wake up so often. It kind of seems counterproductive. Actually, I looked into this and there's an evolutionary reason for it. Frequent waking is a survival mechanism. It allows for regular feeding and keeps the baby aware of its surroundings. Their sleep cycles are about half as long as adults, so around 50 to 60 minutes compared to our 90 to 120 minutes, which makes sense. Then while you are waking up every damn hour, when parents complain about baby sleep, they're actually just complaining about human evolution. I guess you can put it that way. We're fighting biology, but that's why sleep training is so controversial and for lack of a better term, an exhausting topic. We're essentially asking babies to override their natural programming. To me, this just feels like another way for you to complain about me being a bad sleeper, but do you have any advice for new parents on getting through this stage? It is absolutely a way for me to remind you how tough you were and how great I am. But yes, for parents, lower your expectations dramatically. Find your non-negotiables for sanity, but be flexible on everything else, and most importantly, accept help. Whether it's someone watching the baby, your partner, your parents. Take a nap. Let them bring you food, let people help you. And what about those moms who claim their two week old sleeps 12 hours straight? Is that even safe? You know, every baby is different, but I have a firm belief that parents just have a lot of selective memory and creative math. Im parenting. You know, sleeping through the night might mean a three, four or five hour stretch. Far better than one hour stretches I would get, but it's still not fully through the night. Okay. But once you became toddlers, we developed a really consistent nighttime routine. It was the only way to maintain our sanity. And what was this routine like? We always read books to each of you before bedtime. We started this when you were only a few months old. I mean, I remember some books, but like what were our favorites? Sure. Do you remember Brown Bear? Brown Bear? Brown Bear? What do you see? Oh God, yes. I believe the next one was a green frog looking at you, but that said, it always had a blue horse, which just never made sense in science. But anyway, you also both loved the hungry caterpillar, and I still literally memorized every word to that one. I. In the light of the moon, a little leg, lay on a leaf. One Sunday morning, the warm sun came up and pop outta the egg. Came a tiny and very hungry caterpillar. He started to look for some food. Oh God, I'm getting sleepy as I'm saying it. Yeah. And you've told us stories about how we would quote, unquote read them to you too. I guess we just kind of memorized all the words long before we could ever read. Yeah, I don't remember the book, Ava, but there was one about love and it had a big picture on one page of the hardcover book. That was a moon. And I would say the word when I read the book and take my finger and circle the outline of the moon, I'd say moon and circle. And I remember it like nine or 10 months old. You took your little finger and went around the page and said, Mo. I was amazed. I thought you were the biggest genius in the world, and I really understood at that point the purpose and the point of repetition and reading to your child because you picked up the word, the motion, the page, all of it. Just utter genius. Yeah, I agree. I think it just means I'm a genius. Um, but I know we definitely had nighttime songs too. I remember Twinkle, twinkle, little Star, blah blah, black Sheep, you Are My Sunshine Every night. Occasionally we throw in our own on top of spaghetti and very funny operatic voices. And Dad and I sang Bruce Springsteen's, born to Run like every night until I was like 10. Yes. Not the standard lullaby, but we do love that song. Do we have preferences for sleeping conditions even when we were young? Yeah, I mean, besides the dozens of pacifiers we've already talked about, you guys were actually different. Maggie liked a nightlight. You always preferred total darkness. Maggie always had bear or other stuffed animals. You had no affinity for dolls at all. Neither of you really used sound machines or anything. The war of the city is enough, I think. Didn't I have some sleep issues when I was like a bit older too? Oh yeah. Ava, you were just the gift that kept on giving thanks. Once we finally got Maggie to sleep through the night at like one years old, you lovingly developed night terrors on and off from the ages of about four to six. That was scary and miserable for everyone. You'd wake up screaming with no idea you were even awake and would've no memory of it in the morning. What? The pediatrician explained that night terrors happened during the transition between sleep cycles and aren't actually nightmares. You'd seem awake, but we're definitely not fully conscious. It's actually quite common, but knowing that didn't make it any easier in the moment and those moments would last a good 30 to 45 minutes. Oh my God. I don't, I don't know why I don't remember this one. I don't, I've never heard of this. Oh, you don't remember it then either. So were we good? Nappers at least. Maggie was a great napper as a second child. You know, she got dragged around to your activities and around your schedules, but when she wanted to sleep, she'd sleep. Whether it was the stroller, the car, the crib, or once she even put her head down right on the table at a restaurant. And me? You ready for this wedding? Not surprisingly, you often fought naps. Mine not tired. You actually gave them up pretty early at like two and a half years old when I was very pregnant with Maggie. And at that point you would fight the nap, frankly, longer than you would actually sleep, and then it would just mess up the nighttime routine. So we just stopped and we moved your bedtime a little earlier. So your, you know, personality and happiness wouldn't get affected. The toddler preschool years are when most parents develop what I call sleep obsession. You become hyper aware of every potential sleep disruption. You start structuring your entire life around sleep schedules, no events During nap time, you panic if you're gonna be home later than bedtime. You decline evening invitations because the Ben time routine is sacred. You drive aimlessly for an hour to nowhere because the child fell asleep in the car and you dare not disturb them. Geez, that's intense. Yep. To parents of young children, you are not alone. The sleep fixation is universal, but what helped us was having a fairly consistent routine while accepting that some days we're just going to be sleep disasters, and it was what it was. We saved our energies for when the battles really mattered. What happens if kids don't get enough sleep during that age? You know, it's an important point. Sleep deprivation in young children looks different than in adults. You know, tired adults get quiet and sluggish, tired. Kids become hyper and impulsive and emotional, so that wild child who's bouncing off the walls probably is just exhausted. And now comes the teenage years when everything you thought you knew about your child's sleep turns upside down. Yeah. Maggie's actually become quite the night owl, but you know, she says her body won't let her fall asleep early. I think science says it's right, but I don't believe it. You know, during puberty, the body's circadian rhythm shifts, melatonins release later in the evening for teens, making it biologically difficult for them to fall asleep before 11:00 PM I. And I know the science is there, but I still worry Maggie doesn't get enough sleep, although it helps that her school changed its hours, so it doesn't start until nine 30 in the morning now because school start times are really a problem. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that middle and high school should start no earlier than eight 30. Yeah, well, mine started at 8 0 5 and I had an hour long commute with when I was in high school, so I was waking up at like 6:00 AM torture right. It's torture. Exactly. Teenagers need eight to 10 hours of sleep and you, you give your, have, you know, all your nighttime kinda homework activities, social lives, and then early school start times. It messed with the whole system there. Most teens, as you can know, are chronically sleep deprived and therefore have a little bit of an attitude. Thanks. And I mean, for some people college is even worse. There's this like weird badge of honor about pulling all nighters, like sleeping is somehow a weakness. How much sleep were you getting at school? Well, I mean, personally, I, I actually sleep pretty well. I got lucky, I had late classes. And I learned the value of a good nap. Definitely now, but I also, I. Don't go to bed so late compared to a lot of other people my age. And I definitely sleep when I don't have anything else to do. So I actually get a solid age of 10 hours every night. I'm jealous. But what even happens during teen sleep anyway? Like why is it so important now? Yeah, well, like baby stages and kidney stages, sleep remains important. Sleep means that it can help you make decisions and control impulses. All of that stuff is still developing even at your age. It's true. Your prefrontal cortex isn't actually developed till you're like, what, mid twenties or something like that? 25, I think. Did you learn that in psych? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I, I feel like that's also kind of common knowledge. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, well. But sleep deprivation impacts all of that. Yeah, absolutely. Chronic sleep deprivation in teens has been linked to increased risk of depression, anxiety, impaired decision making, lower academic performance, and higher rates of car accidents. Scarily, well, I'll just say that it can explain how we're all cranky when we're tired. Yeah, so for parents, if you have teenagers, try to be understanding about their odd sleep patterns. They're not lazy, their bodies are truly on a different schedule. Advocate for later school start times if you can, and try to keep weekends somewhat consistent instead of the letting them sleep till 2:00 PM it just makes it harder on Monday mornings. You know, I gotta say though, mom, I wonder, do you ever actually really sleep deeply anymore because you just seems like you don't? Nope. Not really. There's this transformation that happens when you become a parent. Your sleep becomes permanently lighter like a biological change. Partly biological, partly psychological studies of brain activity show that new mother's brains remain more alert during sleep, particularly to the sounds of a baby. It's an evolutionary adaptation. You need to respond to your infant. I used to wake up thinking, I was hearing one of you,'cause I would hear baby cries. There was no baby crying. It was like a phantom baby. Craziest thing. Well, it's been a while since we were babies, so shouldn't you kind of just go back to sleeping normally now? You would think so Eva, but what's that vigilance pathways established in your brain? It's hard to turn off. I still wake up. If one of you comes home late if, or there's an unusual sound in the house if dad snores or the air conditioning kicks in, or if a car three miles away has an alarm go off, it feels like, well, dad doesn't seem to have a problem with that. He sleeps through everything. Yes, there's actually a documented gender disparity in how parenthood affects sleep. I used to hear you cry and have to wake up, dad. He wouldn't wake up from it. Studies show that moms lose significantly more sleep than dads in the first few years of a child's life, and many never fully recovered previous sleep patterns like me never. It gets better, but studies show that mother's sleep remains disrupted even when children are school age and teenagers father sleep goes right back to pre parent levels. I mean, that sounds exhausting and kind of unfair. Is it a biological thing or like a societal expectation? It's a mix. Probably. There's biological factors, especially for nursing moms, but a lot of it is about just division of. I guess you'd call it mental labor. Moms carry more of the mental load of parenting, which includes worrying at night. Oh, so sorry to make you worry. Oh, please. It comes with the title of mom. Sure. Well, for any new parents listening, here's what the research says. In that first year, mothers lose an average of 40 to 44 minutes of sleep per night compared to pre-pregnancy. That adds up to about 250 hours of lost sleep in the first year alone. That's like missing an entire month of sleep. Frankly it felt worse than that. So if you're in those early years, know that it's normal and it will improve like other things. Our motto is this too shall pass, but also advocate for your own rest. Sleep isn't a luxury. It's a healthy necessity. Any tips for new moms specifically? Yeah, I mean, like I said before, sleep when the baby sleeps is actually good advice, even though it's annoying to hear. Ignore the dishes, learn to nap efficiently and more importantly, communicate with your partner about sharing night duties. Dad would stay up and do that, like 11:00 PM or midnight feeding for you guys with a bottle so that I could get those early hours of sleep and then I would take on the rest of the night. And this way, both of us, somewhere in there got enough sleep. But those night terrors Ava that you had, we had to tackle those together. I have literally no memory of those. But more importantly, can we please talk about naps because honestly, I definitely think they deserve their own segment. Yes, naps are the unsu sunk hero of humid existence, nature's reset button, but I think we all tend to nap too long. The ideal nap length depends on what you need, but a 20 minute power nap boosts alertness without leaving you groggy. If you want memory benefits, you need about 60 minutes to reach slow wave sleep. But if you go beyond that, you risk waking up during deep sleep, which causes that horrible, groggy feeling. Right, so the sweet spot is either 20 minutes or 90 minutes. 90 minutes will be a whole full sleep cycle. So you'll wake up in between and really shouldn't be groggy. Is there an age when humans naturally stop needing naps? You know, most children drop their daily naps between. Three and five. You of course were earlier because you're that genius, but there's actually evidence that we could all benefit from napping throughout life. I mean, Mackey loves an afterschool nap. I know that. And I am definitely not against a nap anymore. Yep. And short naps can definitely be helpful, especially after school, but her tends to go over 30 minutes, which is probably interfering with her nighttime sleep, which is why then she's up so late. So Dad and I both love naps too. We all do. I guess it's something you definitely got from us. Well, the best sleeper in the family now is arguably the dog. He sleeps all day and night, and we see him get hyper on days when he sleeps less. But he's mastered the art in a way humans can only dream of because he has no responsibilities. Yep. Life calls. We all wanna be Wesley. So can we talk about something fun? Let's talk about dreams for a bit. Do you remember any of your dreams regularly? I tend to remember my dreams for like 10 minutes after I wake up, and then I kind of like can't remember what they are, but if I ever do really remember them, it tends to be really di like detailed. And sometimes they're like continuous night after night, like a series. That's fascinating. Do you have any recurring dreams or themes that show up often? Yes. I have dreams where my teeth are falling out a lot. Like not necessarily falling out of my mouth, but that they're like wiggly and then I go and like pull it out. It's really weird. Oh God, that is odd. But it's actually a very common anxiety dream. It means you're stressed and worried about not having control in your life. Yeah, I mean that, that makes sense. Uh, what about you? All my dreams lately, Ava involve big waves and floods and tsunamis. They apparently reflect being overwhelmed by responsibilities or challenges and the need to cleanse emotionally. I. It sure does. I always wonder what the puppy dream's about. I assume us and squirrels and treats. It's so cute when he is like clearly having a nightmare and he like winds in his sleep or he's like running in his sleep. Maybe it's that he like can't find food or God forbid we left him in the house alone for a few hours, which is his worst nightmare. All of the above probably. Okay, so let's end with some practical advice. We're not all great about following the rules, but we certainly know what can help sleep. I'll start. I know that consistency really matters in college when my schedule is all over the place, my sleep suffers when I maintain a somewhat regular sleep schedule. Even on weekends, I feel a lot better. Yep. And we know bedtime routine is important, right? We all tend to scroll on our phones until literally the second before trying to sleep. I've actually hit myself in the head with my phone coming down on it. Um, probably not the best approach. They, you know, research would say, put the phone away and, go to sleep on your own or actually read and not on a screen before you go to sleep. And you know, sleep environment matters too. Personally, I like to sleep in the Arctic, but temperature between 60 to 67 degrees is optimal for most people. Mom, you hear that 60 to 67 degrees, your room is freezing. But that said, dad likes it way too warm. So I get it. But is it true that you can't like catch up on sleep on the weekends? Mostly true. You can recover a bit, but chronic sleep deprivation causes changes that can't be fixed with one good night, right? And think about nutrition and food. You can't eat poorly all week and then have one super healthy day and call it balanced, even though that's my approach with exercise one exercise and I'm now good for the month. I feel like my best tip would be counterintuitive when I really can't sleep after like. 30 minutes to an hour, I'll like get up and walk around a little bit to try and get sleepy again. Because staying in bed and just tossing and turning tends to make me feel frustrated. Yeah, that's actually evidence-based Sleep experts recommend it. It's called stimulus control. Bed should be for sleep, not for tossing and turning or scrolling on phones or studying or eating. And I think the most important thing is not to make a big deal about sleep One night isn't gonna ruin everything. Exactly. It's kind of like you were babies. You know? Sleep is important, but worrying about it too much creates a vicious cycle. So trust that your body knows how to sleep. It's one of our most basic functions. Okay, so let's wrap up. If you enjoy this episode of I Get It From My Mom, please share it with the exhausted parent or sleep deprived student in your life. Sometimes just knowing you're not alone in your sleeps can help. And send us to the comment through the podcast, what's your best unusual sleep tip that actually works. We'd love some advice. And remember, whether you're a night owl or an early bird, sleep is not a luxury or a sign of laziness. It's a biological necessity. Until a very special episode next week, we wish you sweet dreams and at least one uninterrupted nap. You'll clearly get it from your mom. See you next time.